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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Topic: To game or not to game
    Posted: 01 July 2013 at 9:09am
Hey guys,

It is about time we set a clear goal for this project. Will we choose to make an actual game as a community or will we choose to only make random artwork and allow everyone to use it?
Or will we do something in between?

I want to have your opinions! If you think it would be cool to create a community goal, please also give suggestions on who could possibly help us!

I have been talking about community game development with one of the creators of the TIGbrawl, you can read his reply here

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Skykanden
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Quote Skykanden Replybullet Posted: 01 July 2013 at 11:29am
My sincere suggestion as game dev is to make what the name actually tells, an open game platformer, easy to modify easy to use. With this I mean that modules, maps, characters could be added with simple tools. Maybe the comunity would have to judge before getting into a "asset galery".
I must say that I disagree with the reply you got, maybe some comunity games tend to be less succesfull but look at happy wheels, it can be considered a comunity game as everyone can take part on it, this is the path you can take.
Now onto the profits, I suggest making a free game with the option to donate money to Pixeljoint this way the website will grow and will be able to get a lot of new content.
Also stay away from Kickstarter!

If you need any help programming I can try giving it a shot but I do not promise anything as I'm pretty busy.
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theether
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Quote theether Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2013 at 5:18pm
I'm totally for making OPP a community game!

If it shouldn't be a giant game (agreeing with Soulliard on that), how about a puzzle or action platformer?
puzzle games can be done with comparatively less effort, but personally I'd prefer an action game.
During the creation the latter would stay exciting longer, too.

What do you think, how about making a game with
-   Tight controls, fast paced gameplay and hard bosses,
-   Lots of upgrades you get while progressing, like dashing, walljumping and new weapons,
-   Athmospheric level design with a strong learning curve and a great variety of different enemy types,
-   And of course the amazing OPP artstyle!

Hopefully this is getting some people excited ;)
I'd love to see this collab grow into being a complete game, so let's work together to make it real!

If you need a programmer, let me know.
If the game concept is cool, I'll program the whole thing for free.
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 12:44am
Originally posted by theether



If it shouldn't be a giant game.....

-   Tight controls, fast paced gameplay and hard bosses,
-   Lots of upgrades you get while progressing, like dashing, walljumping and new weapons,
-   Athmospheric level design with a strong learning curve and a great variety of different enemy types,


Do you have experience with making a game like this? If you can make it happen I'd be supporting you 100%
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Skykanden
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Quote Skykanden Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 1:39am
I must say I agree with what Thhether said, but being a comunity game means that will support modifications after the game is released not only during developement stage, keep in mind that modding tools would make a better experience.
Imagine a crossover between Mario and Zelda with customization, that players could do their own characters and then let other members play with them.
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Quote theether Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 5:33am
@ Hapiel:
I can do the programming, no problem.
As for experience, check out my resume: TID=16664
I'm very interested in game design as well, so I would be happy to help with it.

@ Skykanden:
A level editor that allows to share the created levels will be included, but I don't know about custom characters.
Those are great for social games, but I can't imagine how they would work here.
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Quote Skykanden Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 5:49am
It has nothing to do with social games. What if I want to create a new set, say the lava world level set? The game should allow this and that incluces scripting.
If you make this a normal platformer it will lose all the "community" game thing, instead it will be a platformer made by the community which is different.
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Quote theether Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 8:09am
If you want me to include an extra scripting language to allow everybody to change anything, that's demanding a bit much.
Weren't we talking about a finishable project? ;)

I looked into Happy Wheels, but the only thing that is community about it is its level editor?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

A full-fledged level editor would be part of the game.
For new sets it would probably be better to be included in the game directly, don't you agree?

Anyways, this topic isn't just for the tree of us!
Where are all the other contributors to OPP?
We're discussing the future (well, part of it) of your art!
Please tell us what you think about a community game, too :3
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Skykanden
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Quote Skykanden Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 1:19pm
Well for me a community game means that even after release users (which weren't involved in main developement) can still create stuff for the game making something dynamic and not static.
I'm very sure that artistic contributors of the project will be very proud to see their art ingame but maybe some people will feel like they missed something when the game is finished, maybe they want more!
Yeah a level editor helps a lot but modding is also important so keep it in mind.
I actually like the asthethics of the game it looks brilliant and I would contribute to it but I don't know if I'll be capable of fully reaching that style so for now I can suggest some more technical stuff.

I'm sorry if my comments do not feel like they are suggestions or ideas but they really are, I just want to be clear :)

Edited by Skykanden - 03 July 2013 at 1:19pm
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Quote programgamer Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 5:01pm
If we could find a good enough programmer, we could make the AI for everything be a script in a text file. That way, map makers could easily moddify the rules of the game to their liking, assuming they know how to properly use the script.

Another thing would be to simplify everything in the level editor. Like, editing something would be so easy that map makers would feel like they're playing a game making their maps/levels. People could create entirely new enemies from scratch and make certain things interact with each other in ways not even thought by us in the first place! We could have a quest sytems, a minigame editor and, if we really want to go in the extreme, a basic doom like 3d engine for specific segments (though this last idea is really far fetched even in MY oppinion considering the scope of the project).

So yeah, me getting excited over this. Oh, and of course, we would have the ability to load tilesets from the level editor. Duh!
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Quote Jetrel Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 11:07pm
:hmm: You know, the engine we built for frogatto (called Anura) would more or less be perfect for this, and basically should have features, portability, and moddability beyond anyone's wildest expectations. Also a fully open-source license, so people don't have any lockin worries.

Rather than faffing around trying to get people to help out, I think I'll just hack together an alpha in it, post mac/win builds here, and see if we can go from there.

If I don't finish it, no harm done since I won't have wasted anyone else's time.
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Quote Skykanden Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2013 at 11:41pm
Making a map editor is really easy but it requieres some discussion, how you want it to be? Block based or image based? What will it support? What can we do in it? So I think that for now this subject should be left apart.
Whenever you find a solid programmer I can help him or her a bit and I would present myself as one but I'm very busy with my job/games.
programgamer the idea of having scripts means that it won't only be a text file it for example if you decide that the game will be done in Java loading scripts is somewhat "easy" but users will need to learn javascript (which is not too hard either), or any other supported language, I would leave text files or .ini files for configurations.

And about the engines, you could go for a 2d engine like Jetrel stated or if you don't want to put pressure on anyone to make a engine you could simply go for Unity3d, yes it's a 3d engine but 3d Includes 2d view so no problem, also it's easier to have a lot of people working on a project. Check "Knights of Pen and Paper" for a 2d game made by unity :)

I hope I'm being helpful with this, any doubts just ask.

EDIT: If you want to experience a 2d map maker try Tiled.I used it for a couple of games and works fine.

Edited by Skykanden - 04 July 2013 at 12:14am
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2013 at 12:21am
Originally posted by Jetrel

:hmm: You know, the engine we built for frogatto (called Anura) would more or less be perfect for this, and basically should have features, portability, and moddability beyond anyone's wildest expectations. Also a fully open-source license, so people don't have any lockin worries.

Rather than faffing around trying to get people to help out, I think I'll just hack together an alpha in it, post mac/win builds here, and see if we can go from there.

If I don't finish it, no harm done since I won't have wasted anyone else's time.


I wanted to email you like a thousand times and never got to it, but I did not know you were a PJ member! Not because of your work on Frogratto but your invaluable experience at Wesnoth about managing artists!

Yes, I believe the Frogratto engine sounds perfect and I had a look at it before! The only problem (but that seems to be only me) is that the frogratto game crashes on my computer, so I did not feel so interested anymore to check out the engine. But yes, it has all the features we need & is pixel friendly & open source!

You offer to create an alpha? That would be so awesome and could be the start of something beautiful!
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Quote IllicitPixel Replybullet Posted: 07 July 2013 at 9:57pm
The game should not be one whole game but a series of small ones, imo.

Programmers can make their own games in there own time without pressure from others.

Anyway back to coding :>
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Quote theether Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2013 at 8:22am
Just wanted to tell you that I started making a prototype as well.

Movement and walljumping are done and work like a charm.
Next will probably be dashing or some kind of attacks, but we'll need to decide on the gameplay first.
As soon as my exams are over I'll make a more extensive post for that.

Or is the interest gone already?
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2013 at 4:05am
Summer break.

We slowly create a set of animations for a character which will make prototype development much easier, when there is a prototype which shows potential to be expandable and community build I will get everyone back on the project again!

I am still aiming for Jetrels Frogatto engine project to work, I think that could be really cool
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Quote DDR Replybullet Posted: 29 July 2013 at 9:52pm
Hi, all.

@theether So I kinda implemented a demo of my own, since I couldn't find a link to yours. It'd be real helpful if I could grab attribution data off you, and compare your collection of images to my own. At least. Anyway, I was thinking maybe you continue your project, sort of as a backup in case I get hit by a bus or something. Or my version tanks. Whatever. Give me a shout, we should work together on this at least a bit.

@Hapiel Happy summer break. Jetrel's Frogatto engine project has come to fruit over the past few days.  Any chance we could find a jump animation for the black guy? I'd kinda like to make him the lead character, I like him. (I'm open to you telling me to come to my senses, of course. But still.) I was thinking it could be sort of a Dersu the Trapper sort of story, but whatever is cool with you.
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Quote Noburo Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2013 at 11:49am
@DDR I've been working on putting together a full animation set template with the traveler, but if we end up switching the lead character, I'll switch gears back over to finishing out the animation set for the native.
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Quote theether Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2013 at 12:22pm
@Noburo Every work you can do for OPP is highly appreciated, wether it will be in the official game or in any game that is being made using OPP :)
Actually it would be best to have full animation sets for every character

@Hapiel Can you run a list of all the people who contribute to OPP so giving credit is easier? That would be very helpful.

@DDR I've looked at your demo and it looks great so far.
Mine hasn't progressed far enough to be published as I'm busy otherwise atm. I will continue working on it, though :)
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Quote DDR Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2013 at 12:32pm
If we can get animation sets for both the native and the traveller, we could play as both characters! Have a two-chapter game or something... Hm. We should really figure out what we want to do with this game. I'll write my ideas up in a post soon, and then we can discuss it.

I think that full animation sets for everyone would be a bit time-consuming. (Though, strictly speaking, it would be best.) Most of the NPCs will probably only need to stand around and talk to you, maybe walk a few paces.


Edited by DDR - 31 July 2013 at 12:33pm
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theether
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Quote theether Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2013 at 12:39pm
I didn't mean that all animations have to be in this game, but the more potential main characters there are, the more games can be made using the OPP.
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2013 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by theether


@Hapiel Can you run a list of all the people who contribute to OPP so giving credit is easier? That would be very helpful.


It would be just as much work for me to make such a list as for anyone else. Browse the wiki for contributor lists and see where they overlap!


@Noburo: Awesome! Share share share!
Whatever we end up with nobody knows yet, but the character with the most animations and the most attention from artists definitely has the best shot (since it is the artists making the decisions in the end ;) ). So by making the animations you define its importance!
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Quote theether Replybullet Posted: 02 August 2013 at 8:50am
Ah, my bad.
I hadn't realised there is a contributor list in the wiki.
now that I think about it seems so obvious :(
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Quote YuanHao Replybullet Posted: 23 August 2013 at 9:56am
Hey Hapiel, I'm a fan of your work and lately I've been thinking about platformers. Me and my brother developed Wind and Water: Puzzle Battles, I did the programming.

The OPP art seems to be going in a very nice direction, I recently started doing a platform engine (dev.yuanworks.com), unfortunately my brother is currently busy with other projects and that leaves me with not much art.

My vote would go to releasing the art and letting people do chapters on it (I'd love to try and use the sprites to play, as I only have stick figures now), but in any case, I love to focus on tight controls, though I program everything else too :)

I've played with frogatto a bit and seems extremely well-done and has beautiful art, but the gameplay was a little simple. I guess with scripting you can do whatever you want with it!

In any case I'll be checking this section and as I improve on the platform engine I'll let you know. Any question please PM me!

Keep it up :)

Edited by YuanHao - 23 August 2013 at 9:59am
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 23 August 2013 at 10:53pm
Community games rarely ever see the light of day. But go for it anyway.
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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Quote Damian Replybullet Posted: 24 August 2013 at 8:30am
Green, you're such a pessimist. I'm still doing art for this. But I just have less time on my hands. (Other than today, and I'll be watching rugby on TV all day )
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